Reading Time: 15 minutes
Publication Date: 28 September 2023
INTERVIEW WITH
Anne-Marie Dörnenburg
Hometown: Barcelona, Spain
Professional Admission: Germany, England and Wales
Current Location: Tokyo, Japan
Current Position: Senior Associate, Nishimura & Asahi (Gaikokuho Kyodo Jigyo)
Table of Contents
Education
Arbroad: Hi Anne-Marie and welcome to Arbroad! You did your undergraduate degree at the University of Passau in Bavaria, Germany. Legal education in Germany is known to be a lengthy process. What was the most challenging aspect of your legal studies, and how did you overcome that challenge?
Anne-Marie: I moved to Germany when I was 18. My father was German, and my mother is Japanese. However, I grew up in Spain, and arriving in Bavaria for my university studies was quite a shock. Being able to speak the language was one thing, but adapting to the new culture and environment, especially those elements related to the legal world, was quite another.
My discoveries about German culture continued throughout my legal education. I quickly realized that the way of thinking and conveying ideas differs markedly from the Spanish and Japanese styles. A big challenge was the massive number of brilliant students. German education, during my time at least, was really high level. I was based in Passau, a small university town in Bavaria, two hours away from Munich. The number of law students graduating was very low. We started with, I think, 200 students, and around 60 of us ended up qualifying. So we eventually became quite a small circle and knew each other well. Studies were fast-paced, and everyone was very committed to their work. Coming from Spain, where everything is a bit slower and more playful, adapting to the German style was challenging but undoubtedly great training. I learned much about myself and the German history, culture, and education system. After four years of university studies, students take the first state exam, then complete a two-year legal traineeship, followed by the second state exam. Then, I began the lengthy German legal training process, which I completed in Passau and Munich. In all, I spent around ten years in Germany, including two years working in Munich as a newly qualified lawyer.
View from the Mariahilfberg to Passauer Dom with the Alten Residenz in the foreground. [C.Stadler/Bwag, CC BY-SA 4.0].
Arbroad: During your legal education in Germany, did you take any courses in international arbitration, and if so, did those courses influence your decision to pursue a career in international arbitration?
Anne-Marie: At the time, specializing early on was not in vogue. Nowadays, you see many young lawyers specializing in different areas of law, including in arbitration, and with a lot of mooting experience. I’m deeply impressed by today’s students. We had a so-called Wahlfach, a law class we could choose for our last year of university. I chose European Law and International Civil Proceedings Law. International arbitration, or WTO law, was something I learned about much later during my LL.M.
Arbroad: You did your LL.M. in International Law at the University of Edinburgh. Would you recommend this LL.M. to someone interested in a career in international arbitration?
Anne-Marie: As always, it depends. Nowadays, having an LL.M. is pretty standard. Many big law firms seem to require it. I guess it depends on where you’re from and where you want to work. I’m not a fan of just ticking the boxes. Instead, I’d recommend really thinking about what interests you. Of course, you must think ahead and try to adjust to what your future employers will likely require.
My first two years working in Germany made me realize that I wanted to be more involved in international matters while staying in the field of dispute resolution. Also, I wanted to improve my English skills and get to know the UK; although, I never thought I would end up in Scotland, a civil law jurisdiction in the UK, funnily enough!
The LL.M. year broadened my mind and showed me how different legal cultures operate. After ten years of study in a country, you grow accustomed to its procedures and ways of thinking. There is a risk of becoming slightly “arrogant” and inflexible. This second culture shock was even more humbling. I became much more patient and open to new (legal) ideas. We had people from everywhere, really: Canada, Italy, Russia, Japan, China… It was fantastic. We also had international relations graduate students, not only lawyers, in our classes. They often mocked us and the idea of “international law” (which they did not really believe in). We had some good debates.
Old College, University of Edinburgh [dun_deagh, CC BY-SA 2.0].
Arbroad: Were there any extracurricular activities during your entire educational journey that helped you in preparing for a career in arbitration?
Anne-Marie: I had the opportunity to participate in a mooting competition. But frankly, I never really prepared for a career in arbitration. Growing up in different cultures, I was always keen on “mediating” and resolving disagreements. So, I gradually moved towards ADR. Accordingly, most of my experience I acquired on-the-job.
Arbroad: Looking back at your legal studies, is there anything in your educational journey that you would have done differently or any advice you would give your younger self?
Anne-Marie: Probably to be bolder and worry less. The most important thing is to be interested in what you are doing. For arbitration, it helps if you like to analyze complex issues, which you then present in a simple way, and if you are good at listening, especially to your clients. You can’t imagine how much people appreciate it when you carefully listen and are interested in their problems.
Career
Arbroad: Throughout your career you have managed to work in plenty of jurisdictions and in different positions. Could you please briefly summarize your career path?
Anne-Marie: After qualifying as a lawyer, I worked in dispute resolution in Munich for two years. That was a good start as I continued to expand my knowledge about civil procedural law and disputes. Following my LL.M., I had the chance to work in London, thanks to my LL.M. tutor, who happened to see an opening at Freshfields. I worked with the Latin American arbitration team, mainly on investor-state arbitrations. London was, again, a very tough training, but excellent. I learned a lot during those two and a half years. Next, I transferred to the firm’s Paris office, which focuses on public international law. We also did a lot of pro bono work. Lastly, I accepted a position in the DC office. Again, I worked with many colleagues on Latin American cases. During my four years with Freshfields, I always worked in Spanish and English. But each office had a very different vibe; one always starts from scratch in a new office. Nonetheless, I loved the entire experience and am deeply grateful to my former colleagues. I learned a lot from them and about people.
In 2019, I decided to move to Tokyo to be closer to my family. I am currently based in Tokyo and working for Nishimura & Asahi’s arbitration team.
Arbroad: While Germany is still in the process of finding its place among main arbitration jurisdictions, there is a considerable amount of opportunities both in terms of education and career. At the time you were starting your career, was the arbitration field popular among young lawyers in Germany?
Anne-Marie: At the time, starting your career in arbitration was not very common. To me, things were more relaxed back then. Many of my colleagues and university friends started in corporate law or finance. Some were in litigation, and some went to boutique firms. There was no real hype about specializing, at least for the first years of your career. Some of my classmates wanted to become in-house lawyers, so their objective was to gain experience in law firms and then switch to companies. While many often hoped to have a more relaxed life as in-house counsel, I hear this is not always the case.
Arbroad: During your time at Freshfields, you’ve had an opportunity to work in three major arbitration hubs: London, Paris, and DC. How was the atmosphere different in these offices?
Anne-Marie: Everything was grander and highly professional in London, Freshfields’ headquarters. My colleagues were all highly qualified and spoke beautiful British English. That made a significant impression on me. I will never forget my team and mentors at the time. They were brilliant. I received feedback for every single draft I prepared, in printout and with detailed comments. The paper was often quite red from the revisions. This feedback was the best training, and I am deeply thankful to my team for it.
One of our senior partners at the office who led our team was beyond impressive. He let the team and junior partners manage the case, but once the hearing phase started, he got up to speed with the case almost immediately. The team updated him on the details, upon which he delivered his oral pleadings as if he had known every little detail all along. It was an impressive allocation of resources and brilliant teamwork! He trusted the team and gave them room to develop. In Paris, as mentioned, we were involved in many interesting public international law cases, including in law of the sea cases. We also worked pro bono with NGOs in human rights law. Lastly, in DC, our bread and butter were cases with a Spanish or Latin American element. Many of my team members had also worked in London or New York, so most of us knew each other. Workwise, the environment was similarly intense to London, but life in DC was totally different outside of work. As a European, life in the USA seems rather complicated. Everyone is “tougher” in the USA. There is much wealth but also much poverty… People work hard.
Arbroad: We know that you are fluent in six languages, which is impressive. Was speaking multiple languages helpful to build your career in arbitration?
Anne-Marie: Yes, definitely. I think, back then, meaning during my legal education, I underestimated the importance and difficulty of being proficient in English. Many students or colleagues ask me how to start a career in arbitration. My suggestion is to practice writing. Try to draft something yourself and publish it. Nowadays, you can write blogs or create online platforms, such as Arbroad. It is one thing to express your ideas orally and quite another to put them in writing in a way your audience understands. Polish your English, the language you will have to work in primarily. For example, many colleagues want to study exotic languages, such as Chinese, and move to Hong Kong. However, remember that you will likely not work in Chinese but in English. The same is true for me. I am based in Japan, and I speak the language. But I don’t draft in Japanese. It would be too challenging. I’m simply not trained and qualified to do so. I would advise thinking carefully about the languages to choose and prioritize. The more languages you speak, of course, the better. But it won’t necessarily allow you to use them at work or to move to specific jurisdictions.
Arbroad: In 2019, you went to Tokyo to continue your career path with Nishimura & Asahi. Why did you decide to continue your career in Japan?
Anne-Marie: I have a deep connection to Japan through my Japanese mother. I always wanted to work in Japan. When I started my career, the Asian arbitration market was still in its early stages. When I was in Paris and DC, everyone was talking about Asia. My current boss had moved to Japan just before me. He brought me on board, for which I am very thankful. Had I not chosen Tokyo, I would probably have ended up back in London, Switzerland, or elsewhere in Europe.
Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan.
Arbroad: Do you think that there is a potential for growth for Japan as an arbitration jurisdiction? There are arbitration hubs like Hong Kong or Singapore, but Japan is still mostly terra incognita for many arbitration lawyers.
Anne-Marie: Yes, Japan’s arbitration community is growing fast. I’m impressed by how many “foreigners” have joined our team since 2019. Some of them are junior practitioners who moved to Japan right after graduating. It’s impressive.
Things can be difficult if you don’t have real ties to a country. Mostly, those who come here come because they speak Japanese, have friends, or have some other cultural connection to Japan. You are correct that arbitration in Japan is still not as big as in Singapore or other established jurisdictions. We are trying, of course, to promote Japan. Nowadays, there is a trend towards mixed ADR, including mediation. So that is something in which Japan has a long tradition. Also, from an international investment law perspective, many discuss the CPTPP as the potential “gold standard” treaty.
Asia is in vogue; it’s a vast and exciting market. Japan is uniquely a civil law country, while other well-established jurisdictions in Asia are primarily common law. But if you want to come to Japan, you will have this uniqueness of working in a civil law jurisdiction, similar to German or Swiss law. Japan has a huge advantage as an arbitration seat or venue. It’s secure. It has independent courts. So I think there is great potential.
Differences of Arbitration in Asia and the West
Arbroad: While the arbitration market in Asia is vast and diverse, it is still growing and developing as compared to the market in the West. Do you notice any peculiarities on the Asian arbitration market which make it different from the Western one?
Anne-Marie: First, Asia is split between common law and civil law states, with Korea, China, and Japan, which have a civil law tradition, and the other more dominant jurisdictions, i.e., Singapore and Hong Kong—all common law states. Europe has less divide and is primarily civil law based, except for the UK.
Also, the amount of treaties Asia has produced in international investment law is enormous. There is an attempt to be innovative and to combine and refine different approaches discussed amongst international arbitration practitioners.
Similarly, commercial arbitration is pushed towards more expeditious and transparent arbitration, limiting document production, having a more active tribunal, promoting dialog between arbitrators and parties, and seeking a tribunal’s preliminary views. All of this is more in line with the civil law tradition.
One big difference is that Japan has always preferred to mediate disputes to maintain harmony. Japanese companies, often sued by foreign parties, are still very cautious about litigating; this is a big difference between Western and Japanese culture and character. Of course, Asia is not a single block, as traditions differ considerably, for instance, between Japan and Korea, two geographically close neighbors.
Arbroad: With these new developments that you’ve touched upon, do you think that Asia is becoming the new trend-setter in arbitration, or is it still the West?
Anne-Marie: Increasingly, practitioners are reconsidering the state of arbitration and proposing reforms. Significant discussions are happening now, for instance, at the UNCITRAL level, in Working Groups 2 and 3.
Asia is trying to set an example by introducing innovative approaches into the traditional, mainstream arbitral practice. To give an example, you might know the Prague Rules. The Japanese, inspired by them and other similar arbitral rules, picked certain aspects of them for incorporation into the JCAA Rules. The JCAA Rules now include the so-called “Interactive Rules,” which are quite innovative.
Arbroad: What is one feature that you’ve found unusual or maybe surprising when you first came across arbitration proceedings in Asia?
Anne-Marie: Perhaps there is a big difference in culture and the way of advocating among different Asian countries. Not every Asian is as “shy” as the average Japanese. It seems Korean or Chinese advocates and clients are much more “bold” and ready to litigate. Many of them were educated in the US and are proficient in English. Japanese are observing their neighbors and adapting.
Arbroad: How has your experience working in multiple jurisdictions in the West influenced your approach to handling arbitration cases in Japan?
Anne-Marie: As a foreign practitioner, I encourage clients and colleagues to adopt a confident position vis-à-vis foreign opponents early on. But of course, sometimes it’s wise to settle, so if called for and possible, we do that.
Arbroad: In general, many Asian countries are notorious for their tough work culture. For example, it is often said that companies expect a deep sense of commitment to the work, which may negatively affect the work-life balance. As you have worked in different jurisdictions and now you’re in Japan, do you notice this difference or is working in arbitration similarly challenging everywhere?
Anne-Marie: Yes, Japanese professionals do work a lot. But overall, the workload has been similar to my previous teams. I’m fortunate that my current team has a very balanced approach. So you do your work, ensure you did it well, and then may leave. Also, in arbitration, we can plan around our procedural schedules and more or less know what to expect. We can say, “Okay, the next three months will be hectic,” particularly when submissions are due. Especially at Nishimura & Asahi, we handle a lot of commercial cases, which means we work on different cases in parallel; to me, this balance is exciting. For example, I had fewer cases in my previous firm because investment arbitration disputes are so big. With my current work pace being much quicker, I get to see and know much more; I like that.
Blitz Poll
Arbroad: Which language is your favorite to speak?
Anne-Marie: [smiles] I don’t know. It depends on the topic and the person to whom I’m speaking. A friend once asked which language I dream in. I didn’t know how to answer until recently. I realized that it depends on the person I’m dreaming of!
Arbroad: What is your favorite place in Tokyo?
Anne-Marie: A very tiny shrine close to my home. There are hundreds of shrines in Tokyo; this one has a hidden fish pond with big Koi. It is beautiful, especially in autumn.
Arbroad: Beer, sangria or sake?
Anne-Marie: Depends on the day and season. But sangria for summer, I would say, and sake for winter.
Arbroad: What is one thing not to miss in Bavaria?
Anne-Marie: Starnberger See.
Arbroad: Do you have a book recommendation?
Anne-Marie: If we stay with our profession, it’s probably the book “On Writing Well.” It was very instructive and entertaining; it showed me that writing is truly an art.
Arbroad: What is your recommendation for a vacation destination in Japan?
Anne-Marie: Tokyo, for sure. Kyoto, for sure. The South is beautiful—the Southern Islands.
Arbroad: What is the first app you open in the morning?
Anne-Marie: WhatsApp?
Arbroad: Where does the road lead?
Anne-Marie: To wherever you allow it, I’d say. So this goes back to brilliant advice from a great mentor, Lucy Reed, at the YoungITA mentorship program. She said always take a “why not?” approach to things. Don’t overthink. Things will come to you. Just try them out, especially if they interest you. And if you fail, you fail.
Advice
Arbroad: What advice would you give to an arbitration lawyer who is about to jump into a new jurisdiction?
Anne-Marie: Consider whether you really want to be in that particular place, whether you can see yourself there. What’s the reason for considering that jurisdiction? Location, for me, is key. If you’re not happy in a place, you will definitely struggle.
*The interview was conducted on 15 April 2023.